December 16, 2022 – Interview with S. Floyd Mori
(c) Copyright Steven Yip May 22, 2023 | Edited by Steve Yip and Koyuki Yip
Introduction. This interview with S. Floyd Mori, a prominent figure in Japanese American advocacy and former national leader of the Japanese American Citizens League (JACL), provides critical insights into the evolution of social justice activism within the Japanese American community and his extensive work advocating for diverse communities. This interview also emphasizes Floyd Mori’s role in the historical apology to the World War 2 Resisters to the gross injustice of the Japanese American internment experience. This interview from 2022 follows Floyd’s role in facilitating the Hedani family pilgrimage to visit the Utah State Capitol and its Topaz Stories exhibition.
— Steve Yip, New York, March 3, 2025
INTERVIEW
Steve Yip: I want to thank you for doing this. While many Japanese American families were living in Utah at that time, it was somewhat of a safe haven being somewhat removed from the West Coast. Our connection to that experience is through my wife’s family, the Hedani’s. My mother-in-law is a Takei, and both sets of their families were in Topaz. They didn’t meet until after the war, mainly through the Buddhist Church of San Francisco. My father-in-law had just graduated from optometry school at UC Berkeley and was given parole, which allowed him to travel to the East Coast.
One of the things I wanted to capture with you is your experiences as an elected official and how you got into that. Specifically, I’m interested in your leadership role in the JACL, the Japanese American Citizens League. We have discussed this previously, how it was framed and portrayed in cultural presentations, especially the play “Allegiance” by George Takei, as making the horrendous decision to fully cooperate with the government and even encouraging others to comply. Personally, even though I am not Japanese American, growing up on the West Coast, especially in Oakland, California, shaped my perspective on social justice and helped me develop an Asian American consciousness. I wanted to open the floor for you to share what you feel is important to discuss.
Floyd Mori: Well, growing up here [Utah], we didn’t experience being rounded up and sent to camp. As a very young child, I heard about the camps but didn’t understand what they were, even though relatives came to live with us during that time. The topic of the camps wasn’t discussed much around here. After the war, I grew up in a white community with some racial tolerance. Some parents of my friends held prejudice against Japanese people for various reasons. However, most of my peers, who were around the same age as me, didn’t know what the camps were either or understand the war. I got along well with my peers.
I served two years on a [Mormon] mission there [Hawaii, before it became a state]. And then came back and entered BYU here in Utah. One of the things I helped do was organize a Japan Club. In those days, it was not Japanese American. We did a Japan Club, and it was a very active group. [It was] a lot of [the] white guys who had served [Mormon] missions in Japan, who [also] spoke Japanese. I eventually changed my major to economics, and I had two majors. The other one was Asian Studies. And so that put me more in touch with the [Japanese American] community, understanding the community. Asian Studies was a lot more ancient and focused on the history, art, and culture there. In between, I began to learn a little bit more about the camps.
Steve Yip: This is from your research?
Floyd Mori: Well, some summer classes I took, there was some mention of the camps, but I didn’t really know a lot about them because it wasn’t taught in high schools or my classes, which were more focused on Asia rather than Asian American. They didn’t have Asian American studies back then, just Asian studies. So when I graduated, I pursued my master’s there for an additional year. I taught classes as a graduate student, I was given a chance to teach classes as part of a fellowship, and I got paid. So it made it easier for me to get through graduate school.
Steve Yip: This is still in Utah at Brigham Young?
Floyd Mori: Yes, at BYU I taught economics classes. But upon finishing my master’s degree, just a year and a half after graduating with my BA, I was offered a job at Chabot College even before I had my master’s degree. They were looking for an econ [economics] teacher. I guess the guy liked me, so he offered me the job contingent upon my finishing my master’s, which I did during the summer in an intensive program in the Bay Area. Again, I got hooked up with the Asian American community. This was in the ‘60s and ‘70s. The issue in the Japanese American community at that time was getting an apology from the federal government for what happened in World War II. This is when I began to understand that. And when I was mainly with the Japanese American community in the Bay Area, there were some strong activists during that period of time. So I began to learn more and get engaged in the issue of reparations for Japanese Americans.
Steve Yip: This would be in the mid-70s?
Floyd Mori: Yeah. In the mid-70s, the JACL (Japanese American Citizens League) decided to take up the issue. I think in their convention in 1978, they decided to lobby. At that time, [Daniel] Inouye [and] Sparky Matsunaga were senators, and by ’78, Norman Mineta had become a congressman. So we had some voice there, and a year or so later, Bob Matsui became a congressman. We had a small cohort of Japanese American members of Congress. They decided in 1978 to start working on it. Well, of course, I was a member of the [California] Assembly at that time and, therefore, developed a working relationship with the JACL. So I introduced resolutions to support it and worked with the JACL.
Steve Yip: Which chapter were you most active in?
Floyd Mori: It was called the Mount Eden chapter, which covered Hayward, Fremont, Union City, and…They had an Oakland [California] chapter, which was Oakland and I think some San Leandro folks. Those were the two chapters in the East Bay. There was also one in Contra Costa. And actually, during that time, there was a chapter out of the Livermore, Pleasanton, Dublin area. So there was a school district Tri-Valley Chapter out in that area. Anyway, I got more engaged with the JACL itself and was an officer locally. When I moved back to Utah in ’83, I became engaged nationally in the late ’80s when the lobbying for the bill became more intense. The bill finally passed in 1988. Jason was on the national commission at that time.
Steve Yip: Did you get involved with the Fred Korematsu case?
Floyd Mori: I was not involved with the case, but I got to know Fred and Gordon Hirabayashi. Who was the other one? [Minoru Yasui]. Korematsu, Hirabayashi, and. During that time, I got to meet with them because I became a national officer of the JACL (Japanese American Citizens League) in the early ’90s. I stayed engaged with this process and the issues during that period of time. So yeah, then I became the national president in the year 2000, followed that as the national director in 2005. There were some very intense decades when I was very much engaged in the redress process.
Steve Yip: There was one of our lawyers when we were activists at the Asian Law Caucus.
Floyd Mori: I still stay in touch with Dale [Minami]. Dale was just a kid at that time, as you well know.
Steve Yip: He was older than me, but anyway…
Floyd Mori: He was not too far out of law school in the late ’80s. When did you graduate college?
Steve Yip: I’m a dropout. I quit. I’m a dropout from UC Berkeley. I left there in ’72-’73. He was already an attorney before I left the Bay Area. He had actually taken up a case. We had some activists who were arrested right in front of Oakland High School, where I graduated from. They were leafleting for… I can’t remember what event, but ironically, Asian Law Caucus offices were directly across the street. And we already knew Dale then, and he had taken up the case. He was very eloquent in the courtroom. It was just wow. He was like giving the jurors a lesson in legal procedure and the role of what an attorney does. It was very interesting.
Floyd Mori: Yeah, very true. So anyway, yeah, that’s why I was engaged, as you know, very much part of the JACL during that period in the ’80s. I was elected to be the vice president in ’88, I think. So…
Steve Yip: Were you seeking those positions?
Floyd Mori: Well, not really. I was asked to. Yeah, when I became vice president, it was a vacant position. The president at that time was Helen Kawagoe. She was an elected official from Carson, California. She was the city clerk for a long time, and she was the president at that time. The vice president of operations was sort of the right-hand person to the president. She was a nice lady, but she didn’t like confrontation. So when there were issues to deal with. I had to do it. Like we decided at that time to change national directors. And I’m the one that had to go fire the guy that was national director. And then we helped find… that’s when John Tateishi became the national director of JACL.
Steve Yip: You already had several years under your belt as a member of the Assembly, so they figured out, “Floyd Mori got all this experience negotiating with them in the hot seat?”
Floyd Mori: Anyway, I had the honor of doing all the dirty work.
Steve Yip: That was my point. You were the XO…
Floyd Mori: Anyway, that was my gradual process of getting acquainted with the internment and what it did and what it meant. My wife was born in LA, so Irene experienced being evacuated from LA. They didn’t go to camp because they had relatives here, so they had to move here. But her dad lost everything, his business and everything there. So that’s why they stayed here after the war, rather than go back to LA.
Steve Yip: I know a lot of people stayed where they were in the general area. I have a friend who lives in New Haven. But he initially came from Denver, and there’s that reason why their family settled there. Yeah, he was born in the camps, born there.
Floyd Mori: That’s the case, and suddenly, some people were born in the camps that are now, you know, they’re in their 80s and 90s here now, but we still have some survivors of the camps. They have some here in Salt Lake.
Steve Yip: I think it would be very important to get their oral histories because I think this is so precious. And just when we did our pilgrimage, it really was impactful for all the members of our crew [who visited the Topaz camp]. And, you know, our crew was our family. It was not just Japanese; it was Chinese, Filipino, and Vietnamese.
Floyd Mori: One of the prominent ones here is Raymond Uno, who was at Heart Mountain. He’s in his 90s now, and he went to law school, became a lawyer, and became, I think, the first minority judge in Utah. He was also a national president for JACL. So he’s been very active in civic affairs. Another alumnus of Topaz is Ted Nagata, but he lives up the street from where I live, and he’s been a very successful graphic artist. Some of the major logos in Utah were his creation. Since the 2002 Olympics, he created the first logo for the 2002 Olympics. Remember, he did well. He’s now at 89 years old.
Floyd Mori: Yeah, he’s very active in the community here, a leader. Another, let’s see, I’m trying to think of her maiden name. Anyway, there are several families here in Utah that were originally at camp and decided to stay in Utah after the war.
Steve Yip: Did that elevate the population level of Japanese Americans in Utah, particularly in the Salt Lake area?
Floyd Mori: Yeah, after the war, quite a few stayed here, so actually, the population diminished because after Topaz, most people went back home. But yeah, as far as people living here, a lot of them stayed here, went to school here, went to university here, and made their home in Utah. So yeah, there was that period where there were some more, other than us native guys. Our dads came pre-war and farmed here.
Steve Yip: You know, I was shocked. I was just gonna review my notes. I was totally shocked in terms of there being a very large Asian, particularly Japanese American, population in Utah during that time. And I’m talking about the war time. Because you never think about that, even when you’re in the Bay Area. You sort of become a Bay Area chauvinist. When you are thinking of Asian America — its the West Coast. You never think about a place like Salt Lake City, Utah. Fascinating.
Floyd Mori: Yeah, since that time now, you know, Japanese Americans — if there’s 10,000 in Utah, but there are 100,000 Asian Americans in Utah. And about 50,000 Pacific Islanders. So it’s a fair amount. After the Korean War, a lot of Koreans came. After the Vietnam War, Southeast Asians, Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians came here. So I just had a meeting the other night with a group of Asian Americans and, boy, they, they name a lot of stuff I didn’t know — different ethnic groups that exist here in Utah. That never existed 20 years ago, when I left,,,
Steve Yip: The demographics of this country are changing very rapidly. Who would know that there’d be a large Asian American population in Georgia?
I was shocked by that in the last election. It was interesting. Can we go back a bit? I’m interested in the dynamics and the interplay leading up to the apology you made as the national president of the JACL regarding the resisters of conscience. The JACL was viewed as a conservative body, even during the height of the Asian American movement. However, some Japanese Americans, particularly the Sansei, raised questions about the camps and formed liberation chapters within the JACL. I thought it was a significant milestone. Janet and I lived in and got married in J-town and married in the Buddhist Church of San Francisco before moving to New York. I’ve been involved in the Japanese community then, despite my activism in San Francisco Chinatown. Can we discuss how this question surfaced and how the national leadership addressed it? Which chapters started raising the issue of apologizing to the resisters of conscience? What was the overall terrain like?
Floyd Mori: Yeah. I didn’t know a lot about the Resisters. But there was a conference held. And I can’t remember what kind of conference it was; maybe it was an academic conference or what it was, but it was a conference that was held in Laramie, Wyoming. It’s at the University of Wyoming, and I was a national officer at that time, so I decided to go see what it’s all about. It was related to the resisters because they were in the Heart Mountain Camp in Wyoming. And so I had a firsthand experience with some of the Resisters, including the renowned Frank Emi, who participated in the conference. It provided me with an academic and social education about the resisters, with which I was previously unfamiliar. At our next convention, I think it was probably the Bay Area chapters. Some of the Bay Area chapters introduced this resolution that was debated very heavily at the 2000 Convention, and that was the convention that I was elected to be the national president. There was typically opposition from the military people that served in World War II. They had felt as the community had done over the decades. ‘These guys just dodged the draft. Here we went out and risked our lives, and so many guys died, and you guys wouldn’t go.’
Steve Yip: When was this taking place? Was the Vietnam War completed by then?
Floyd Mori: Oh, yes. Yes. was completed by them. This is 2000. And so I got this exposure, learning on both sides about it. And you know, we call them the resistance of conscience. So it wasn’t something they did because they were afraid or anything like that. There was a principle behind it that they resisted until they let their families out of prison. Well, they didn’t let them out of prison. So, these guys went to prison themselves because they resisted the draft.
And over the decades since the war, the Japanese American community had sort of put them aside. They were black sheep, so to speak. And so there was a big change of heart, I think with the newer generation, in JACL, and Sansei’s became more prominent in JACL. And the World War 2 folks became less prominent and less vocal. Except when we voted to support the resisters that do an apology. There were World War 2 veterans who walked out of the convention and renounced the JACL. Most of them later came back as the discussion of resistance of conscience became more prominent, and people began to understand and feel that they weren’t the cowards then. They had a conscience, and they were probably a decade and a half prior to when the protest was something that was accepted within the Japanese community. Japanese culture is to do what leadership says and conform. And so that was the prevalent attitude during the beginning of the war. It wasn’t pleasant, but again, JACL was part of saying let’s cooperate and do what we have to show that we are good citizens that way.
Steve Yip: So, how did you feel personally, being a veteran and also a former member of the California Assembly?
Floyd Mori: Well, I think I understood the significance of paying homage to the conscience aspect of it. When these guys protested the war in the camps, I wasn’t there, so I didn’t fully grasp it at the time. But as the president at that time, I fully supported the decision of the JACL and felt a responsibility to organize and make that apology.
Steve Yip: Was there an actual vote in the JACL convention in that particular direction? And what were the dynamics within the national leadership of that?
Floyd Mori: Well, yes, so the national resolution came before the body — the body being the chapter has a vote. And we had over 100 chapters, probably, I don’t know, 80 or 90 chapters, and were represented at the convention. So the national vote was taken to support this resolution to have to apologize to resisters and to have a ceremony to express that apology. And I supported that resolution.
Steve Yip: Was there any internal controversy within the leadership body? I mean, I’m talking about the national officers.
Floyd Mori: I can’t recall any major opposition. There was some hesitation but not what I would call opposition at that time. A lot of debate, a lot of discussion and debate, before the vote was taken, so you know, it was very democratic, and people got to express their views. And that’s why when the vote was taken, there were some veterans that just simply walked out because they still felt that these guys let us out. They thought they were too chicken to get up there.
Steve Yip: Which I think I’m not going to comment on right now. Go ahead.
Floyd Mori: Alright, so the ceremony was held, and there were about 20 of the resisters who attended. The ceremony took place at the JCCC [Japanese Cultural and Community Center] …
Steve Yip: … at Sutter and Buchanan.
Floyd Mori: It was a full house. It was a very emotional time. But that event marked a turning point, and gradually, most of those who had walked out came back to JACL. Some still went to their graves not agreeing with that whole process, but it was. It was a change in the 2000s, so we’re talking about, you know, 35 years after the war, whatever, it was 45 years after the war, so it was a new generation of Sansei and a new attitude to view about what happened during that time.
Floyd Mori: The Nisei generation, some of them are pretty hard headed. They got something in their mind, and that was it. I think I mentioned my brother, who was drafted and went to Germany when the war ended. So, he didn’t see combat. He did not like Roosevelt’s signing Executive Order 9066. So he was a Republican all his life. Because of what Roosevelt did. Until this last time, he finally couldn’t take Trump — so he did not vote for Republicans.
Steve Yip: We applaud him! A lot of people, thankfully, were disgusted by Trump. So I think we got a good sense in terms of the whole experience [with the apology], which I thought was a major milestone. Maybe as we come to a close…
Floyd Mori: I understand. I understand the state of mind in 1942. Because I know my mom and dad, my brothers and sisters. They were more of a mind to, you know, try to be good and do what they were asked to do. I know for those on the West Coast that had to leave everything, it was very, very difficult still. In the end, what they [endured] during the war was meritorious. Went through it, but it was unjust, and they went through this whole unjust thing. And that particular generation didn’t make a big fuss about it. It wasn’t until that Sansei generation began to understand injustice and about the civil rights movement during the 50s and 60s, particularly during the 60s…
Steve Yip: You’re in the East Bay and the midst of it. I don’t know how much you follow what happened in Berkeley or even Oakland during the Black Panther years. Yes. I’m sure it had an impact on a lot of people. So moving forward, I think that’s a good bridge. You’re particularly well known because of your stance on social justice. Why don’t you share some of your views now in terms of where Asian Americans are heading today? Or what is our place in U.S. society, especially now that we see a rise of anti Asian hatred and violence taking place because of the pandemic? And also, you know, spurred on by rhetoric coming from Trump. But anti-Asian hatred has always been — historically speaking — part of the Asian American experience. But you also took a much more proactive stance in terms of combating that and also reaching out to other communities to develop greater understanding.
Floyd Mori: You know, so much of this we need to look through different lenses during different periods. Injustice was not seen five decades ago. Now we understand what people went through, and we see that injustice so… I’ve had the opportunity of seeing different waves of injustice.
Koreans came to the United States after the Korean War. The South Koreans fought against the communist North Koreans, so they’re very anti communist. Eisenhower was a hero to the Koreans. And that generation of Koreans that initially established themselves in L.A. and San Francisco were very conservative in terms of politics. In the ‘70s, when I was in politics, most Koreans who had difficulty speaking English were establishing businesses and becoming part of American society. And they had no place to go when there were problems. Some saw problems. There were probably three or four Koreans who were engaged in the political sphere during the ‘70s — just a very small handful that became aware, and they were in the political process.
One was an assistant to Mayor [Thomas] Bradley and I, being an Asian, Korean groups came to me at that time. One of the issues was of the Department of Labor clamping down on Korean garment makers. L.A. had a developed section that still exists where Koreans had these backroom factories where they made garments for name brand type companies. Well, these are first-generation Koreans who had values of Korea and didn’t understand what the American labor laws were. One of the first groups that I worked with was the Korean garment workers because there was injustice. They didn’t know the law yet. They’re being penalized. So there’s nobody in the Labor Department of the State of California who spoke Korean, yet they were people that couldn’t really explain the law. So we worked with the Labor Department to get some Korean-speaking people to lessen that problem that existed. As a result, I gained good friends in the Korean community, all Republicans.
Steve Yip: Was there resentment because you were of Japanese heritage?
Floyd Mori: …well, because I stepped up and helped them, and I think they felt an affinity because I was Asian. And they even had fundraisers for me down in LA at that time, so I had some very close friends in the Korean community. Worked a little bit after being out of politics, anyway. I had an office in LA, and one of the Korean guys was a pretty good businessman. He had real estate, he had an office, and he gave me a space in his place. They had an office for what I was doing.
Steve Yip: What would qualify you to have an office if you were representing a county in the Bay Area? That’s pretty interesting.
Floyd Mori: This is after… certainly when I was the state’s director of international trade, and the main office for that was in L.A., so I spent a lot of time in L.A. at the Office of International Trade for the state of California. And I opened a new office in Alameda County at Jack London Square — I had an office there, too.
You know, I had that experience with the Koreans, right? But then, when I was in office, the Vietnam War was coming to an end. And a lot of refugees came to California in the mid-’70s. And I developed an affinity to the Vietnamese because they made this camp down in Camp Pendleton to house these refugees — thousands of them. I felt the need to go down about 1976 that I went down and welcome them to the state of California. So, I got to meet a lot of leaders in the Vietnamese community.
But the thing that struck me was the camp! It was a very desolate part of Southern California. There were these tents all lined up with these families living in them. And he just brought back to me, you know, the internment camps the Japanese statement. And so part of my heart was left with Vietnamese at that time because of the conditions that they were in. So, again, we did what we could to help the Vietnamese community during that period of time.
I was with the JACL when Hurricane Katrina hit. The Gulf Coast was impacted with 60 to 80,000 Vietnamese fishermen who lost their boats. And very much like the Koreans, the Red Cross as well as the FEMA had nobody that could speak Vietnamese. It was difficult for the Vietnamese because they didn’t get the kind of help that white people had. So I organized a meeting down there with some congressmen, FEMA, and the Red Cross. We changed their direction and hired some Vietnamese-speaking people so the Vietnamese continued to be helped.
So, I developed a relationship with the Vietnamese community there. There was an issue that happened in Georgia with the Vietnamese Catholic Church where a county down there was going to build a garbage transfer station right in the backyard of the Catholic Church. And I was made aware of it, so I spoke with the local congressman and county leaders.. We held a committee meeting, and the county decided they better not do it. So we helped the Vietnamese community down there.
It was in Gwinnett County. And there are a couple cities there that have a lot of Vietnamese. It’s next to Atlanta. It’s very close to Atlanta.
Steve Yip: I think you’ve established yourself with a national footprint. I have to share this very quickly. I wrote a very short summary of our trip to Topaz.
Floyd Mori: You know, I’ve had just the opportunity I’ve had to work with people throughout the country. Another group I’ve worked with is Muslims after 9/11. That was during my tenure as president of JACL in 2001. The morning after, we did a press release condemning what happened but saying Let’s not do what happened to Japanese Americans. So we were very much in support of the Muslim Americans at that time, and they recognize that. I was asked to speak at a lot of Muslim places. There was a shooting in Elk Grove, California, where two Muslim guys were just gunned down. And I was asked to speak and spoke at the funeral. I worked with people in Michigan where there’s a large Arab American community..
So anyway, so just been in a place and time that has given me the opportunity to work with other groups and with the JACL behind it. It’s a lot more significant than just a guy going out there. So we took some very strong stance during that time,
Steve Yip: I’m glad to hear that you were president of JACL when 9/11 happened because the position that JACL took was very important. And a lot of people around the country took notice of it. And I think beginning with the apology to the resisters it changed people’s perception of what kind of role JACL can play and even when the recent thing about the migrants issue on the border. Many Japanese Americans protested in support of the migrants, as opposed to the government’s policy of detaining them and separating their children. I think that the legacy that you are part of as part of JACL is very important because the perception of JACL and also the actual role JACL plays today has a very significant impact in terms of how people respond to incidents of hatred, and xenophobia. And I can go on and on.
Floyd Mori: We can continue to play that role because racism isn’t going to end, right?
Steve Yip: Well, I believe that racism in U.S society is embedded in the culture from the very days even before the United States of America was founded. You know, in terms of the enslavement of Africans and the genocide against Native people, even if some native people cooperated with the British or the French, you know, genocide was part of the equation.
Floyd Mori: So, got a lot of work to do, Steve. Got a lot of work. That’s why I’ve stayed engaged. We have a large Utah community… I am now even an advisor to the Utah Muslim community.
Steve Yip: You probably know that I do these informal reviews and articles for this music website. I began more serious writing, but anyway, that’s part of what my goals are since I turned 72 this past Monday.
Floyd Mori: Alright, you’re old, man!
Steve Yip: I hope to keep up a certain legacy as you are doing for yourself in terms of impacting future generations…
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1 The forementioned “Jason” was most likely a staff member of the Commission. There were eleven Comission hearings from July to December 1981 in ten cities, including Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, New York City and Cambridge, were held before a nine-member commission appointed by President Carter and members of the Senate and House. Chaired by Washington lawyer Joan Z. Bernstein , the commission included U.S. Commission on Civil Rights chair Dr. Arthur S. Flemming , former Supreme Court justice Arthur J. Goldberg , former Senators Edward W. Brooke and Hugh B. Mitchell , Reverend Robert F. Drinan , Father Ishmael Vincent Gromoff , and Judge William Marutani . California Congressman Daniel Lungren, who provided the sole opposition to monetary reparations, was vice-chair.